>> we are in the of this. potential and we cangrowing and all agree on that. thank you so much. have a gat night. >> ♪ ♪ anything you can do, i can do better ♪ ♪ john: women get paid less than men. should government force this to change? the government trying to force equality and even in sports. >> one of 10 games the school is cutting. >> are there differences between boys and girls? the battle of the sexes. that is our show tonight.

♪ ♪ double and now it is time for jn stossel. [laughter] ♪ ♪ john: men do get paid more than women. significantly more. americans on average, for every buck a man makes, women earn 77 cents. but there's one thing that every job has in common. dudes get paid more for doing it. i have a daughter, i want her to be paid what she's worth. i wonder, do we do the same jobs? are women really discriminated against? tonight we separated our studio audience.

as they came in we asked the people to anonymously write down how much money they earn. then we average th salaries. for the won, the aerage turned out to be 66,000. for the men, 79,000. but that means for every dollar at the men make, the women only made 83 cents. that is more than the national average of 77 cents. the difference ticks people off. >> president obama knows the women being paid 77 cents on the dollar for ding the same work as men is not just unfair, but it hurts families in mecca time to close that gap. john: a dollar versus 77 cents. what a horrible discrimination. says the author of "cult of power: sex discrimination in corporate america", mark the

>> a good portion is absolute because of discrimination. john: why would the employer discriminate? >> some of them don't pay enough attention and so they don't realize that maybe frontline management is making decisions that are not in the best interest of women. some of them to think that they can get away with it. that goes back to the early 20th century when people pay women less because they were women a said so out loud. john: you ar saying that this is still going on today? >> i'm saying that we still live in this legacy. absolutely. otherwise school cafeteria workers and school custodians,

why would those not be paid the same because they are the same skill level and entry-level type of job. and yes, they me more because they are predominantly male. in the cafeteria ladies are predominantly female and the job pays less. the same is true with parole officers and social workers. essentially the same kind of work, but parole officers make more money because they are predominantly male. john: here is a picture of this man who was a young hippie who join feminists protesting. he was even on the board of the national organization for women. buthen he got deeper into the data and changed his mind. he wrote why men earn more, the startling pay gap and what women can do about it. did you decide it's not

discrimination? >> the paygap is not about men and women bt about mothers and fathers. there are so many work life chces that men and women made. many of these lead to men earning more and can lead them to having a morebalanced life, which usually ends up being a happier life. >> he said women are smarter than men. john: because themore willing to travel, sacrifice his mily life for work, and women are more grounded and well-rounded? >> these people pay for wha they need. and they are likely to pay more given the amount of education they had, working extra weekends. >> would you say about that? >> i think the da is bogus. everyone agrees that even in the

male-dominated jobs like nursing and teaching, men make more. i read a study by the american bar association. there is a huge gender pay gap. >> it helps to know that anesthetists earn money each year. if you are a nurse, you earn much less than not. let's teach our daughters how they can outearn men. >> saying that they foolishly choose our history not knowing? well, if they are taut only about discrrmination or how likely they are to get a job, and they only care about the film and, we have to keep these

trade-offs. when you do studies of business owners who have mbas make only 49% of what others make the women say that they want flexibili and i want to be my own boss, i want to be close to ome. john: women are smarter and make better life choices. >> well, mr. ferro has said that motherhood is pnished due to the choice that women make. well, he has a point. but he didn't tell us the other half. that is beig a father and being married actually help man in the workplace. it punishes women. we have a lot of data that shows that the employer looks at the women even if she's not married yet and thinks of her as a

potential mother. so maybe i better not hire her, maybe i better not pay quite as much. i certainly don't want to promote her because she might get pregnant and drop out of the workforce. john: is the employer supposed worry about that? >> that is because the culture in our society punishes women for being mothers. there no organize childcare, for example. >> women start asking a different set of questions. many say, what do i one of my life? i want to make more personal time or do i want more time to have children and women are more likely to say that i want a balanced life. so they don't go to the highest level because they are not stupid. john: thank you. recently sheryl sandberg wrote a

book called lean in and she got attention for saying things like that. >> this couple of weeks ago we hosted a very senior government official and these two women who were traveling. and i kind of said to them, come sit at the table and they sat on the other side of the room. >> some were angry. but she puts the justice movement at risk, saidone leftists who is upset about this and her not agreeing that women are victims of corporations. they say that this holds women back and not the way that women act. but her book did become a number-one number one bestseller. does she have a point? joest says sabrina schffer of the independent women's forum. >> yes, i tought that she did not initially lament the

workplace culture, she didn't but offer offeror public policy prescriptions. she just talked about women that had a strong career path and here's here are several things you can do to better yourself. john: so women need to be told if they want to advance in the company to take a seat at the table? >> the fact is that she picked up on gender differences that men and women are different n the more that we sort of recognize and accept those differences, the better we are. so she says that women don't negotiate their salaries, i was one of those women. my brother sd he negotiated every salary that they had. stephen are women committed? not the women that i know. [laughter] >> they realize that a lot of the battles have been won.

after a wild there is a big sign that we are still having this conversation. >> but there is one place that i agree with some of the feminist on, i think that sandberg is a little bit out of touch. here's why, i think tat you look at recent studies only 23% of women say that they would prefero work full-time, let alone with a ceo way of life. most women want some kind of balance. john: to make a choice? >> all right, thank you, sabrina. [applause] >> coming up, is it true that women can do anything men can do >> ♪

♪ ♪

john: our battle of the sexes continues.

first, pulling the audience, how many of you love sports? [applause] okay, slightly more men. let's narrow it down. how many of yo played a sport this month? okay, all right. you guys. i think that is typical when it comes to sport. i think men and women can be different. not all of you, but most of you. this is just common sense. but to say that is not politically correct. and it is utterly unacceptable washingn dc where politicians passed a law called title ix, which says that no person can be subjected to discrimination under any education program. that sounds good, discrimination isn't something we like and the vice president says that title ix changes civilization.

>> empower women. >> okay, well, sean is the former president of the association for girls and women. >> i would agree. >> wasn't civilization changing? >> gas. >> it has had a huge impact on our society today. >> so you were an athlete as a child. when he wanted to play soccer, there wer overall teams. and you ended up is the only girl. >> correct. >> by college-age at penn state, there were some girls teams and i guess, there were some women's teams, but the teams that i played on, the soccer team was part of the status and we wanted to be a varsity team and get the recognition and support. at the time, penn state do not

support women's soccer, so we filed a title ix complaint so that we would have equal opportunities. john: i would argue that people were just waking up to what women can do at the time and this could happen anywhere. if women wanted to play sports universities would've accommodated them. >> it would've happened very slowly. john: why would the university not want to help these women? >> to provide activities in athlets that cost money. it really forced educational institutions to make sure that both the sons and daughters have equal opportunities. john: equal opptunity would suggest that women want to play sports just as much as men do. do these say that they do? >> i do.

>> okay, so on average. i mean, women often have other interests. the girl's talk on thmen want to run around and smash into each other. on a different? >> i think that we each have unique ways. title ix really pushes the issues. whether you are a man or a woman, you should have the opportunity to purchase that. >> i keep hearing about unhappy news and about title ix leading colleges to eliminate some men's sports teams. >> the university cut the wrestling program over title ix. >> this is one of 10 teams the school is cutting. john: indoor track is one of those dropped men's teams.

>> unfortunately, the powers that be, they have chosen to base their decision to cut these minor sports because they arre s an analyst amount of money. by cutting some of those sports, then a college or university has the money that they can support women's athletics with. >> i mean, this is -- shuld there be lawsuits that say you have to have equal numbers in dance and cheerleading and the yearbook and more girls like to do that? >> i think that is debatable. >> vocational clubs, more women than men. cheerleading, 19% versus 8%. mus programs. it s interesting.

>> well, again, that is the debate. how do you determine interest. >> i would think the culture just changed. when i was a kid, my school was all men. we complained and princeton voluntarily admitted women. so once it was prohibited for women to smoke or go to a bar alone. >> we don't need this stupid law. >> we do, we needa lot. [laughter] >> all right, the audience has an opinion. >> we need a lot. we would have been waiting hundreds of years. we would've been waiting forever. >> hundreds of years? >> in caveman and cavewoman days if we didn't push the issue. a lot of times what happens is a

lot has to pass and social acceptance and social morals don't change for quite a wild after law is passed. john: we will talk about this next. the battle of the sexes. is there something in the brain that make boys and girls do something like this? >> girls cared more about playing with each other, talking, cooperating.

john: are there significant biological differences between men and women, outside of sec organs is that is. i was in college, i was taught it is unacceptable to say that. men and women are biologically

the same, and only because of sexist sociees that causes boys and girls to behave differently, if we stop doing that there would be equal numbers of female race car drivers and male ballet dancers. i believed that, i did. until i had children. and woke up and then did a report on abc news that got me in trouble. i said, boys and girls are not the same. >> oh. >> we treated them the same but they were so different. i don't just mean my kids, their friends took the girls were more civilized. they looked you in the eye, talked to you, they cared about your feelings, the boys -- >> bang! >> the boys wanted to go to war. >> bang, bang! >> the girls cared about playing

with each other, talking, cooperating. >> you be the princess. john: there were exceptions but the pattern was clear, no matter how sex-niche neutral we parents tried to be, tte somehow power of the female brain agrees with that. doctor, you conducted the biggest brain study ever done, and found? >> femalebrains were more active. in about 85% of the brain. women are really wired for leadership. if you look at the homes, and you look ating oing organationse churches they are the leaders, not for this thing called children that derails the

careers, they make great ceos, women, in our studies and also i point this out in the book, they are better with things like empathy, intuition, collaboration, and self control, women go to jail 14 times less than males, what many people would not think of as a strength, which s think circumstance the -- is, ty have appropriate worry. john: this is wired? to the brain? this is n about parenting? >> it is wired into your brain. thathen little boys are exposed to testest on ronnie and girls are not there is reshaping th happens early.

inside your mother's womb. john: at conception we begin as same clump of cells except for y chromosome that guys have, they make men's brains different? >> right, whether you have they chromosome or you don't, the level of testosteroe you had. begins to shape your brain in a certain way. john:nd changes you forever? >> well, it makes a big difference. what is interesting, if women take testosterone, that is happening more and more, if they take too much they begin to think like a guy, they always think about sex, and have less empathy that can cause trouble. john: the ride motorcycles. i want to poll my audience here,

how many of you have a good sense of direction? more guys, i'm seeing raisi their hand than womenhat is my experience. look at these experiments i reported on, this first one at university of rochester. students are blind folded then walked througed news the maze o. when women are asked where a college building is. they are not so sure. >> that way. john: many retain a sense of what direct they moved. >> through the next door, take a left, then a right,hen a left. john: and so on, another experiment at york university, students were asked to wait in a clutter room.

when student did not know is that waiting was the experiment they were asked this -- >> tell me, every object in that room that you can remember. john: women give answers like. >> on right side of desk briefcase with initials, and a mints and i am 40 button, and envelopes in middle. >> and women would go on, and on, and on t men would say, things like i don't know, there s some stuff. so, doctor, this is a biological difference? >> no question. memory centers of the brain, deep in the brain, more active, in women than in men which is why she remembers your first kiss. and every time your mother of rude to her.

when wom get an emotional memory, they have trouble letting it go. and often remember things you wish they would have forgotten. john: i remember my first kiss. it reminds me of what happens to lauren summers, president of harvar he dared say maybe a reason that women don't dominate the way men do in the sciences, might be biological. he got drummed out of harvard just for saying that. >> he dbut it was -- but i think this w the wrong message. they were not perhaps as good or as competent. their brains in ts particular area of the brain are just as strong. but they are bore biassed to -- more biassed t relationship issues, so they aore likely

to go into professions where they want to interact with people. john: thank you so much doctor. when we return. how young reporter john stossel was clueless in general at coed schools. >> the boys get the better deals. >> the boys like they just they loudly say what they think, and if they are wrong, they don't

john: as our battle of the sexes continue, let's focus on school. how many of you like school? i see more hands on the women's side. that wasy experience. i hated school.

when my kids were born, the message was that school is unfair to girls. that parents should consider all girls schools because boys are so loud, and dominant in classrooms. and that is what i found when i read a book to a class of first graders. >> look what happens. this boy comes from the back of the class. to make a point. soon there are three boys in my face. commenting on the book. the girls stay seated. >> who gets most attention in class, boys or girls? boys. john: why, boys ? >> they talk more than the girls, the girls don't get called on. too much. to class. >> they have so much energy. they are never actual that's quiet. john: this girl had a theory to

why boys are quicker to raise their hand. >> the boys, they very loudly say what they think, if they are wrong, they don't care. >> i assume that she was rig because that happens to be my daughter that said that and prevailing theory at the time was that because of boys aggressiveness coed schools were unfair to girls who were overwhelmed by the boys. but maybe things changed today many educator say that boys get stifled in schoo psychologists leonard is author of boys a drift. which argues today's schools are toxic to boys, doctor, your book said school takes boys motivation away? >> boys of 7 and 8ears of age, say i hate school, and i ask them why, they say, jason and me were throwing snowballs we got

in trouble. they said we could dw anything we want in art, and i drew a sword and get in trouble. john: in trouble for drawing a sword. >> an american public school today it is common for boys many schools have a we're zero tolere policy, not only can you not bring a pstic replica of a gun but you cannot draw one. john: to reduce violent. >> this is an assumptn not based in evidence. the notion is that if you don't allow boys to draw a sword, they will become gentle fairies who want to talk about their feelings, it is not true, i was refering to disney fairies, okay as in tinkerbell. they will chew their bread into a pistol and i can give many examples of schools in u.s. where a boy has chewed his piece of bread into a shape of a

getsuspended. john: when you we in school, you won a creative writing award. >> for writing a story in which east german refugees tried to escape it west germany one got his legs blown off in a minefield and died, then, i visited a school, very recently where 10 grade english was to write a story about what you want, a boy wrote a story about a winter 1942,rom perspective of a russian sold o -- sold or patrol, and he described who haened. and how the head is explodes. and this boy was suspended from school. boys doing things that boys have always done. throwing snowballs. drawing pictures of a weapon, writing stories about traumatic amputation and death, they do what they have always done that gets you in trouble. that is where so many american bays say -- american boys say

school is for girls, the boy who wrotes about combat is in trouble. when i went to high school in ohio, 30 something years ago, the kids earning honors, at the awards, the editor of newspaper and yearbook they are boy now they are all girls, we den go to 5 50-50, we swung the othr way, when did boys decide that argue is not something that boys do. john: you grew up in a sexist girl. now it is more equal, girls took over and because they a smarter. >> no, the boys decided that being in a debate club is uncool it is alied with the academic objectives of school, what is cool with boys is next level in call of duty, and the schools do not understand telling bys, i

don't want to read the story that you want to write, i wan you to write about your feelings, write about how you file, if you were not invited to a party. what happens, boy say, instead of writing about battle i will wrote about how i would feel? they say, no i'm not going to do, that school sucks, i'm going home and play call of duty. john: these a touchy issues, our audience would like to question you, and o other guests then we'll confront and myths about gender. are women worst drivers are men more likely to

john: we're back with your questions for my guests, leonard saks, says that boys areecheated by american schools, shawn latta said we need government to provide equal sports for boys and girls in schools. why is no one talking about fact we have to physical standards between men and women in military, and law enforcement or fire department? are we equal or not? >> we do have different

standards that is biological. if you look at physiological differences like hormones, men have a greater capacity of muscle mass. and to be stronger. john: should men have ann@ advantage in fire departments and combat? >> the average man, t there are women who have greater stngth than some men. john: why not have oneest? those women with equal or greater strength they get in but we have women get to do fewer push ups, and run the mile me slowly, why that fair? >>hey have other skills, that can be beneficial to fire department. john: to audience. >> in terms of business and technology. of the innovation is still most from men, even though women are graduating from college in greater numbers. >> and getting master. >> what do you think of long-term effects of this on the

economy? >> you raise an interesting question, what drives innovation. steve jobs, the greatest innovate or of our generatn was a college drop out, and bill gates was a college drop out, economic achievement does not rrelate with innovation. >> look at where women place their efforts many get bachelors and masters in fields that are not necessarily the same as men, men choose computer science, where we see tangible results, in terms of innovation. women with english, they are going into these big tech firms, sheryl sambergs, and of ibm and microsoft hired a -- >> they are the exception. >> right but they are influencing this. john: who has mic.

>> you said title 9 you felt was necessary beyond social changes, if not for that we would still be in stone ages. i was wondering how you explain a new sport mixed martial arts and caged fighting there are already females without about law tt requires them to do that. you know how did this come about without a basics change. >> title 9 was passed in 1972, it is over 40 years now it has impacted social beliefs. and so now -- john: the lawhanged peopls attitudes? >> it opened the doors for women to he an opportunity. >> is it still necessary. >> get rid of it. >> absolutely not, because, even so the national women's law center estimates ast least 70%

of colleges and universities are still not in compliance with title ix . john: the boys want to play sports, if i play football i know it will happen, if throw it to girls, okay. john: we're out of time, thank you, leonard, shawn, and sabrina, coming up, women drivers and fe laundering men. we -- test

john: finally, a couple of myths about differences between the sexes, is true women are brad drivers -- bad drivers, what do you think? how many of you think that -- raise your hand, tt women are worse drivers? so the men not the women say it. well, i say as with all these missions there is som -- myths there is some truth this video, been watched more than a million times illustrates what i think is true. women often just are not very go at maneuvering a car. maybe about brain differences relating too depth perception. butn this parking lot, a woman trying to park again, and again

but she just cannot get into the space. finally a man gets out of his car, switches places with her, and he is quickly able it pk her car. he gets bac in his car. one come on the web site said, women should be in the kitchen not at the steering wheel. >> but, when it comes to bad driving, what is the best measure? parking? not really. driving without hitting things, matters more by that we men are much worse. much more likely to crash a car. this is a graph of deadly car accidents since 1975. the good news, that total has gone down. either cars are safer or most everyone driving better. or both but the clear difference between the two lines shows, that men crash cars more often. one research review put it men drive faster than women, or more likely to speed, drive drunk or run stop signs we crash twice as

often as women do. and u.s. men cause 71% of all deaths on the road. >> now. men drive more miles than women, but when miles and driving hours are factored in we men still get in to more accidents and hurt more people. you have to say, women are better drivers based to that. [appuse] but men are more likely to be unfaithful to cheat on their partners, so, is that true? i asked audience, how many of have you cheated on your spouse or boyfriend? all right you are not going to give me an honest on answer, surveys, suggestion that men are more like likely to cheat, evon may be reason for thousands of years women queu knew her childn were more likely to survive if she chose a man to stay and help her take care of kids.

by contrast men were more likely to pass on their genes if they had sex with a lot of women and fathered a lot of kids, today we're told women want a committed relationship, and men' variety, right? >> i am sorry that i did not live up to what was expected of me. >> i did not have sexual relationsith that woman. john: are men more likely to cheat. a -- cainian institute found that men are more likely to cheat, and numbers are close, it not just a guy thing, this is our show, me myths in my book. often what we think we know is just not so. see you next week.

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